Don’t get hit by the Trane

______________________________________________________________________ I have a Trane unit (WCD090C400BC) on a rooftop and I have had nothing but problems with it and I am on my last rope. The problem I am having is I cannot get the unit fixed. I have dumped just in the last year around $7,700 dollars in the last year on service calls trying to get the unit fixed. This unit has had every part 2 or 3 times exchanged or new, except the compressor. I have seen two different companies with great service techs and they tell me they can’t find the problem. I work for an Japanese company and I really felt bad telling them as an american that the unit apparently can’t be fixed. Does this sound right? Thats like someone coming to your house and every service tech within 100 miles cannot fix your ac unit. The problem is the unit will in summer shut off on cool fail, and cannot restart unless you shut the main power off and resume power, It could run an hour or could run a couple of days, you just never know when. It does seem it only does this when it is extremly hot(upper 90’s) In the winter time the unit will flash heat fail, notified by the digital t-stat, but the compressor part only shuts down and the Emergency heat is only working. Then i can shut the power off and back on and it will reset itself and run maybe a day, maybe 5 min. Off course i called Trane service and they give me an answer like ” Well I need to talk to a service man on site while he is trying to troubleshoot the unit”. I told him, I’ve had every service tech up here, and of course they have called you several times and I have the bills to prove it. Where does it stop. I was hoping that a trane rep would say, “Hey” lets take that unit off there, and I’ll give you a deal on a new one. But they just don’t care. We are looking to expand our new building and add probably 6 to 8 more ac units. Do you think I will stick to Trane? HMMMM. I wish someone could tell me what i could do, or who I could talk to about my problem, because Trane is getting ready to loose a costomer. Thank you. Tech Maint. Supervisor Replies: MelissaJonesIAZ “New Free Teen TGP (X-X-X)” , posted Sat 8 Dec 15:17 ______________________________________________________________________ Hi There, New Free Teen TGP – Check it out! Visit Click Here ( ) If link above does not work please copy and paste: Into your web browser. Melissa mrphixit “Re(1):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Sun 13 Mar 22:57 ______________________________________________________________________ Hello, Is this unit using a digital system? T-stat and control boards on those units run on unusual voltages and digital signals. I have experienced some freaky stuff when these control wires are in the proximity of other electrical wires flowing current. They make a retro fit kit to convert them to a regular t-stat. Some digital stats have blue and red slide controls. This may help let me know. Mrphixit Mr. Phix-it chiller guy “Re(1):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Fri 11 Mar 18:25 ______________________________________________________________________ Perhaps I am not getting the picture here but did you run the self test? Disconnect all the external controls and run the unit “STAND ALONE” by jumpering the TEST terminals on the lv terminal board. It should run for up to an hour like this and you are not by-passing any safties. If it fails during this time the problem is within the unit.The big book, “Voyager Microcontrols”, has the procedure. Did they replace the the main processor board (UCP)? The three quick starts you refer too that result in a lockout are generally caused by the LPS opening during the 3 min minimum ON time (but not always) Has this system ever been opened? Give me Model & serial # when you can. All refrigerants are safe – All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!! Brian Anderson “Re(2):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Mon 9 May 13:59 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes we did already. Card, bypassed, u name it we have done it. WCD090C400BC—–SN:L36101940D Tech Maint. Supervisor Brian Anderson “Re(2):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Mon 9 May 13:58 ______________________________________________________________________ Tech Maint. Supervisor Mastertech “Re(2):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Fri 11 Mar 20:56 ______________________________________________________________________ Good thought on the LPS/HPS(Im thinking a restriction of some type myself). I too was wondering about the system being open or if they have ever added freon to it. If it over amp it would go out in one try. This is a heat pump does it have a dual compressor or single compressor? Back to the restriction or maybe a reversing valve not working properly. Another thing u can do to elimenate posible problem is to disconnect the econimizer. As Chiller said run the UCP Test and also run the unit with out the econmizer. That will elimenate zone control and econimizer. Best thing todo is to elimenate things with out replacing them.(Save u alot of money) CHILLER GUY “Re(1):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Wed 9 Mar 17:53 ______________________________________________________________________ It appears you have a 7 1/2 ton “VOYAGER” heat pump. This unit uses electronic controls and each time you power it down you reset any and all “failure” modes, thus back to normal operation!Have any of the Tech’s tried to isolate the problem to either the roof top unit or the off board controls? Right now your problem could be within the unit “on board” or in the external controls “off board”. The test is simple enough but takes a little time (30 min) but narrows down the problem areas. All refrigerants are safe – All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!! Mastertech “Re(2):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Wed 9 Mar 20:13 ______________________________________________________________________ U know for less than double that 7700 i could replace that unit with a brand new Trane. I would be pisst too. That is a hard system to work on if u dont know what u are doing. Did they bring the thick manual that should have been giving to a tech that has been certified on that unit. And if u reset the unit before they can get the codes off it will be hard to find that problem. As Chiller guys says there is a check test on the board. Its been 8 years since ive taken that course and only worked on one since then. What city and state are u in. I noramlly will not charge someone if i dont fix the problem(and that dont happen much at all). The biggest problems ive heard on these units were the damper controls. Mastertech “Re(3):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Thu 10 Mar 19:58 ______________________________________________________________________ Please define “Then I think it will try 3 times (go on and off) before it totally shuts down”. Are u talking about the compressor? Is it stopping then tring to start again 3 times and then being locked out? Oh did u say u had Service advicer from “The Trane Co.” come out?Im in Texas normally check this site around 7 to 11pm central time. Brian Anderson “Re(4):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Fri 11 Mar 12:02 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes,compressor shuts off 3 times before lock out. The Trane service tech by phone helps a local distributor of 20 years experience working on Trane ac units. He said he has never seen anything like this. And as a service tech myself(not for ac units) he is very knowledgable. Tech Maint. Supervisor Brian Anderson “Re(3):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Thu 10 Mar 07:22 ______________________________________________________________________ I am from a town call ravenswood, West Virginia. What check code are you talking about? There is a light on the board that will blink and let you know some things about it. I have seen the book your talking about and we used it, plug we have talked to the head service tech while trobleshooting this lemon, and it explains how to ohm circuits and such, but like I said, the unit runs fine when its running. We have found no reason ( logic ) why this unit shuts off. The only other thing that has not been replaced is the compressor. If there is something( internal ) circuit that could be shuting unit off, I nor did the tech know of a reason. Tech Maint. Supervisor Brian Anderson “Re(3):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Thu 10 Mar 07:14 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes, we all have tried to isolate the problem. We disconnected the zone sensor, economizer, high and low presure switches, outdoor air sensor, new boards, new tstat (shielded cable). We switch from a regular t-stat to a digital t-stat. We also have a fire alarm which the circuit is normally closed and opens when tripped causing unit to shut off. We have bypassed everything i know and the unit still shuts off. Everything looks great when it runs. We even replaced some wires because we thought that when it would get real hot that the board was moving causing maybe a connection to come loose or something. I have been there and saw it with my own eyes while the service tech was monitoring all vitals, this thing shut off for no reason. Then I think it will try 3 times (go on and off) before it totally shuts down and has to be reset by shuting main power to unit off. Tech Maint. Supervisor hvac_dude “Re(4):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Fri 11 Mar 07:25 ______________________________________________________________________ One thing you have not talked about is checking the charge on the compressor(S). If the the suction pressure falls and opens the LPS and then the pressure rises and starts the compressor,after 3 time it will give you a cool failure on the t-stat. Another simple thing to check… make sure the blower motor is up to speed. I had a TRANE unit with a wire to the motor that had a rub mark on the insulation and sometime would ground out taking away a phase, causing the motor to slow down… which gave me a cooling failure… I would reset and the unit would run again till the wire ground out again… Brian Anderson “Re(5):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Fri 11 Mar 11:47 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes, we have checked the pressures and they are perfect. We bypassed the LPS and HPS and the unit still kicks off 3 times then lock out. Tech Maint. Supervisor Mastertech “Re(6):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Mon 21 Mar 19:16 ______________________________________________________________________ Dont know if u are still out there but did some one ever add freon or open the refrigerant system for any reason? Brian Anderson “Re(7):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Mon 9 May 13:54 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes, we have had one of the compressors replaced the first year of operation. Tech Maint. Supervisor Freezone12 “Re(7):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Sun 10 Apr 17:41: ______________________________________________________________________ another possibility might be the freeze protection circut. if the return air is undersized this could be a problem. I have encountered this problem with faulty circut boards, which when replaced solved the problem. I noticed you are using shielded wire. Make sure only one end of the shield is grounded. if both ends are grounded, electrical current can start flowing back and forth through the shield wire inducing enough voltage in the stat wires to wreak havoc on your controls. Good Luck _______________________________________ If it don’t fit force it. If it breaks it needed to be replaced anyways. [this message was edited by Freezone12 on Sun 10 Apr 17:44] Brian Anderson “Re(8):Don’t get hit by the Trane” , posted Mon 9 May 13:56 ______________________________________________________________________ Yes, the ac unit side is ground only to the frame Tech Maint. Supervisor